Curse

elk · Apr 08, 2009, 05:13 PM // 17:13

just my 2 cents (and you hear this in other character threads/posts etc...)

degen just isn't the best way to go unless you're looking to cover something up. While [Ignite arrows] is good, it does cause scatter but you are looking to try and do as much dmg AoE as possible, which is why everyone comes back to [Barrage] ([incendiary arrows] being another acception for multiple arrows along with [volley]). Yes the groups don't always clump well or will move out of the clump but in most cases you're trying to pour out as much dmg to a group or single target (if you can reach the group with the poision spread, you should also be able to reach the group with alternate AoE dmg. DoT is just going to be slower kills therefore the AI will have more time to attack/ apply pressure etc. Considering that if the AI have "melee" shutdown, it'll effect application as well as +dmg but some groups will be able to remove conditions but won't be able to reduce +dmg again making DoT less effective.)

That and the DoT is a limited dmg output in that you can't stack additional degen with the cap limit at 10 pips whereas there are lots of additional stacking skills that can increase your +dmg (so in the case of [barrage], things like [judges insight], [great dwarf weapon] [conjure flame] [ebon battle standard of honor] [by urals hammer] [i am the strongest] [order of pain] etc. are all going to continue to add to the +dmg - just examples - all these won't work in combination w/ one another)

elk

MasterSasori · Apr 08, 2009, 05:32 PM // 17:32

This is post #22 and I'm surprised that no one mentioned

[broad head arrow] + [epidemic] + [splinter weapon] on a hero.

This isn't that great in easy NM, but is awesome in HM.

Oh btw, whoever said Mesmers are better than Rangers in terms of interruption is a big, fat liar.

iToasterHD · Apr 09, 2009, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Elk that is sort of what I wanted to hear. Though I am still frustrated that the game was so poorly designed in some ways. Especially since Rangers are "conditions spreaders," yet conditions are no good in PvE... makes me sad. But yes, I sort of understand now. Straight damage, or armor ignoring damage is best - especially when applied to as many foes as possible. I was having trouble with what I wanted the game to be, and what the game really is.

Oh and MasterSasori, I have tried BHA a lot in NM PvE and yeah, by the time arrow hits, the foe is dead. I don't often to HM (being how I am a perma-noob <- Copyrighted term) but I could see BHA/Epidemic being extremely useful.

If I ever decide to go back to playing GW, I will definitely experiment more with my Barrage/Pet + Hero w/ Splinter Weapon or in HM BHA/Epidemic

MasterSasori · Apr 10, 2009, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by iToasterHD

Oh and MasterSasori, I have tried BHA a lot in NM PvE and yeah, by the time arrow hits, the foe is dead. I don't often to HM (being how I am a perma-noob <- Copyrighted term) but I could see BHA/Epidemic being extremely useful.

If I ever decide to go back to playing GW, I will definitely experiment more with my Barrage/Pet + Hero w/ Splinter Weapon or in HM BHA/Epidemic

Well don't give up. HM isn't really that bad, but it requires a bit of homework on what to bring and what not to. Rangers aren't particularly great in PvE, but they make it up with their ridiculous PvP abilities. Even in PvE, they are powerful. You should definitely try the build I suggested. It is incredibly powerful if played correctly. Even if you feel you are bad, with practice, you should do just fine. I firmly believe anyone with any bit of coordination and common sense can PvE almost anywhere.

iToasterHD · Apr 14, 2009, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Okay, currently trying [Barrage] in NM PvE, and I find it useless. I have a Rt with [Splinter Weapon] and it still sucks. Even with the warrior tanking, as soon as we get close enough to attack, aggro breaks. I am by far hitting more single targets, then two or three. Might have just been that particular mission. But this is just strengthening my feelings that Barrage is only good in extremely specific conditions. Other AoE dmg skills are still great at single target damage, while Barrage just doesn't stand on its own. [Broad Head Arrow] takes too long to recharge for NM as well. Still not getting this.

Axel Zinfandel · Apr 14, 2009, 03:35 AM // 03:35

No, you're pretty much right on the money

Barrage really isn't that good, and is only good under certain circumstances

FoxBat · Apr 14, 2009, 04:02 AM // 04:02

[Prepared Shot][Penetrating Attack][Sundering Attack]

[Expert's Dexterity][Keen Arrow][Hunter's Shot][Sloth Hunter's Shot]

[Glass arrows][Conjure Flame][Dual Shot][Triple Shot][Needling Shot]

Can be improved with various skills

Prep: [Read the Wind][Expert Focus]
Interrupts: [Distracting Shot][Savage Shot][Concussion Shot]
IAS: [Frenzy][Lightning Reflexes][Never Rampage Alone]
PvE: [Asuran Scan][Ebon Battle Standard of Honor][Dwarven Stability][Triple Shot][Save Yourselves!][Drunken Master]

I know your pain. Watching barrage do nothing everywhere sucks, and BHA isn't worth it much of the time. I spent most of my ranger's PvE carrer in NM thumping away with scythes and daggers as a result. Fortunately anet finally made some broken turret builds that make bows fun.

_Nihilist_ · Apr 14, 2009, 06:08 AM // 06:08

Splinter/Barrage builds work when you can guarantee that you can pull a decent amount of enemies onto a single target (Perma-SF Assassin, for example, I do this with a Guild/Alliance group in UW). When that happens, stuff blows up. Fast.

If you don't want to wait for a Tank to grab tons of aggro, though, you're going to be better off with an interrupt+spike capable build that allows you to shut down/interrupt/bend over and have your way with priority caster-type targets.

Axel Zinfandel · Apr 14, 2009, 07:00 AM // 07:00

[Brutal needler;ACOSWexgJpOlLGG2Y0KJTOTidA]

Something I'd run.
Brutal Weapon is optional, and you can sub it out and raise marksmanship, though it does add considerable damage

iToasterHD · Apr 17, 2009, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Yeah, I am still hitting a brick wall. Half of you guys say use this, then the other half says no, that sucks. I understand that you have to pick skills that you work best with, but man. I am getting frustrated again... AoE isn't effective most of the time. BHA isn't effective most of the time. Burning Arrow doesn't do enough damage. That's pretty much all the best PvE Ranger Elites. What exactly do rangers do in this game?!

MagmaRed · Apr 17, 2009, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Rangers do a lot of things in this game. It depends on what you are doing with your team that decides what your role on that team would be. PvP or PvE? NM or HM? Facing casters that need to be interrupted? Facing physicals that need conditions (cripple, blind, poison, bleeding)? Need damage?

Ranger can do anything but heal basically. If you are running a Broad Head Arrow build and facing warriors and rangers, you will be useless. However, if you are running a Broad Head Arrow build and facing Elementalists, Monks, Necros, etc., you will serve a nice role for your team.

NOTHING works in all areas all the time. Versatility is nice, but knowing what to use and when is important.

Axel Zinfandel · Apr 17, 2009, 02:18 AM // 02:18

And now you know

and knowing is half the battle

GW is boring running one build 24/7 anyway

Aldric · Apr 17, 2009, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by iToasterHD

Yeah, I am still hitting a brick wall. Half of you guys say use this, then the other half says no, that sucks. I understand that you have to pick skills that you work best with, but man. I am getting frustrated again... AoE isn't effective most of the time. BHA isn't effective most of the time. Burning Arrow doesn't do enough damage. That's pretty much all the best PvE Ranger Elites. What exactly do rangers do in this game?!

At the moment I like [Asuran Scan][Distracting Shot][Penetrating Attack][Prepared Shot][Sundering Attack][Read the Wind]

I find [barrage][splinter weapon] a bit limited for alot of PvE and usually would run [BHA]/[Ebon Dust Aura] with [Volley] and micro the [Splinter Weapon] on a Hero instead

Moonlit Azure · Apr 17, 2009, 03:08 PM // 15:08

It's good, but not great. Since your only targeting one thing at a time.

My main PvE build is just a splinter barrager.

elk · Apr 17, 2009, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by iToasterHD

Yeah, I am still hitting a brick wall. Half of you guys say use this, then the other half says no, that sucks. I understand that you have to pick skills that you work best with, but man. I am getting frustrated again... AoE isn't effective most of the time. BHA isn't effective most of the time. Burning Arrow doesn't do enough damage. That's pretty much all the best PvE Ranger Elites. What exactly do rangers do in this game?!

well I didn't back track but are you working with H/H only or with other folks?

AoE is going to give you the greatest return when some can pull and maintain aggro. This is typically tough with H/H unless you are the one doing the maintaining. As a Ra, there are a few builds that work but you're typically built more towards that function versus doing the killing. You can get away with proper use of your surroundings to help maximize this but I'll assume that this isn't directly what you're after. Some of the PvE Nec builds such as Sabway will give you a similar effect with the minons but you just need to work on extending the minons out to ingage and hold aggro (i.e. flagging that MM hero slightly out - wait for things like the minons to circle the "master" which moves their aggro range towards your target etc.) Still though, H/H won't ever be as effective at clumping as a human team will (although you need to factor player experience). In a lot of cases with H/H, you're going to want to change your roll to aid the H/H group you create. The Broadhead suggestions often allow for your H/H group to plow through the AI versus you being the dmg source. Some of it is subjective to the area your running (i.e. no corpses). There is no "right" to the whole deal so when folks are telling you one thing or another, just soke it up and try to use it to your advantage.
Also consider that PvE is a matter of enjoyment (on some level) so playing what you want and the way you want and building around you does work (may take longer or have a lower success rate but there's no judgement from the H/H).

g/l

elk

iToasterHD · Apr 18, 2009, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Very well written Elk. And I appreciate everyone's responses. More often then not I am using H/H, though I did realize having a team is much more preferred. However, like everyone else in this game it can be almost impossible to get a group together (and I am part of a guild). I try to constantly work with actual players to try out these builds, but I guess my issue is that as Elk stated, you have to soak up everyone's suggestions and make one of your own. And my problem is the more information I soak up, the less I find the Ranger to be useful in PvE. I recently reworked my use of the Heros, specifically having a warrior that I could easily control as to gather aggro in order to most effectively take advantage of Barrage even having an Rt with Splinter. Unfortunately as soon as my team and I approached, foes broke aggro. It seems this game would greatly improve having either with Humans, or without any aid. I definitely am looking forwards to GW2.

There is a build that goes something like this.

[Broad Head Arrow][Point Blank Shot][Zojun's Shot][Read the Wind] Blah blah blah

This build utilizes BHA to take down casters, and the spammability of PBS and Zojun's to effectively use BHA, as well as to hit hard against heavy armored foes. This build, albiet a bit dangerous considering distance, finds a balance in PvE. Often rangers aren't the first to be attacked, and if they do get attacked, a lot of good stances can help protect you for a reasonable amount of time.

Going back to what Magma said, I know one of my assumptions is already flawed. I am not great at this game so the idea of having multiple builds for multiple areas is too difficult for me. I am looking for a general build that I can adjust slightly if I keep failing at a goal. Each area has high armor and casters, are there really areas where you would bring anti caster over anti armor? or is it just when there are specific bosses that need interruption? How variable are these builds supposed to be?

I think I am starting to ramble now. Once again, thanks everyone for helping me so.